LCM Podcast EP5 – The Great Organizational Culture Debate

In EP4, Eric Lynn and I talked about changing culture and the concept of 'buy in'. A few people had their own thoughts about these topics! This episode is a response to EP4.
December 3, 2015
Jason is the author of Lean Change Management and founder of the Lean Change Management Association and Spark the Change Toronto
Change Agility by Jason Little

Get our latest publication, Change Agility – A guide to help you think about change management differently by Jason Little.

In this episode, Mathias Gorf, Patrick Verdonk and Peter Rubarth debate the points raised by Eric and I during Episode 4:

  • the concept of getting people to ‘buy in’ to your change
  • intentionally changing, and measuring culture
  • how to preserve your existing culture during growth
  • whether ‘chief culture officers’ are a good idea or not

Show notes:

Interested in being on a future episode? Contact me!


  1. Peter Jetter

    We agree historic data indicates change success rates of somewhere around 30%. Your hypothesis is, that Lean Change practices lead to higher success rates. Did your experiments verify that hypothesis?

    I fully agree to applying short feedback cycles(sense&respond) when changing/perturbating complex systems (of systems). So far I used things like “Scrumming the Scrum” and Organisational Change backlogs, which are based on similar assumptions.
    On the other hand, i doubt that earlier change agents were(remained!) ignorant of all these things -and they still failed 2 out of 3 times.

    I think, the real improvement is to let go of “predicting the future in detail”. Instead keep scope flexible while approaching various moving targets.

    • Jason Little

      I don’t agree with the data. The summary of the reports I’ve read state that there are two reasons why ‘change fails’: 1) the lack of a standard change process and (2) people are unpredictable. I don’t believe there’s any value in attaching a binary outcome to a complex problem (like transformation). My hypothesis isn’t that lean change management reduces the failure rate. My hypothesis is today’s world needs a different approach to change. That is, stop running them like projects, stop centralizing the change team and stop planning change in isolation, but co-create it with the people who have to live with the consequences of the change.


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